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	<title>
	Comments on: RAM Arbitrage	</title>
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	<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage</link>
	<description>A running commentary of occasionally interesting things — from Mike Davidson.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Outrageously Expensive RAM &#124; NerdStarGamer		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32801</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Outrageously Expensive RAM &#124; NerdStarGamer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32801</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] All of this left me pretty annoyed at Apple, and feeling like no matter what I did, I was either wasting RAM (and money) now or later. So, I really had to laugh when I came across Mike Davidson&#8217;s post on RAM Arbitrage: [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] All of this left me pretty annoyed at Apple, and feeling like no matter what I did, I was either wasting RAM (and money) now or later. So, I really had to laugh when I came across Mike Davidson&#8217;s post on RAM Arbitrage: [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tim Chambers		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32494</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Chambers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32494</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Raymond does not work for Apple, but I do appreciate his enthusiasm for paying extra for Apple-supplied RAM, as it increases Apple&#039;s profit margins, and subsequently Apple&#039;s stock price. The shareholders thank you, Raymond.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raymond does not work for Apple, but I do appreciate his enthusiasm for paying extra for Apple-supplied RAM, as it increases Apple&#8217;s profit margins, and subsequently Apple&#8217;s stock price. The shareholders thank you, Raymond.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike D.		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32491</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 03:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32491</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Raymond: It is definitely people like you who buy Apple RAM.

I&#039;m off to go buy &quot;a Windows&quot;...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raymond: It is definitely people like you who buy Apple RAM.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m off to go buy &#8220;a Windows&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Raymond Smith		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32490</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Raymond Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 01:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32490</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I could care less what you believe, my MacBook is the fastest, most reliable laptop around. This is why I&#039;m a tech for Apple. I know the difference, you learned yours on Google. Buy your cheap RAM and than call me and ask me what&#039;s wrong with your computer. I run many applications at once, with three monitors, I know what I need. If you cannot afford quality RAM, don&#039;t take it out on me. As far as I&quot;m concerned, you have nothing to offer as far as intellect. You might as well buy a Windows. My MacBook boots in less than 30 seconds, runs as many applications as I need at once, with my built in server, your computer is junk compared to mine. So, who cares what a know-nothing like you cares.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could care less what you believe, my MacBook is the fastest, most reliable laptop around. This is why I&#8217;m a tech for Apple. I know the difference, you learned yours on Google. Buy your cheap RAM and than call me and ask me what&#8217;s wrong with your computer. I run many applications at once, with three monitors, I know what I need. If you cannot afford quality RAM, don&#8217;t take it out on me. As far as I&#8221;m concerned, you have nothing to offer as far as intellect. You might as well buy a Windows. My MacBook boots in less than 30 seconds, runs as many applications as I need at once, with my built in server, your computer is junk compared to mine. So, who cares what a know-nothing like you cares.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Joe L.		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32484</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe L.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32484</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m with Mike on this one, Raymond. Basically nothing you say there is true. 

For one, there is no such thing as &quot;Apple RAM&quot;. Apple buys RAM from the same 4 or 5 big companies (Samsung, Micron, Qimonda, Hynix, Elpedia, Nanya) that sell 80% of the RAM for the entire industry and just sticks it in their computers. Companies like Crucial and Kingston are just retail-fronts for the RAM makers like Micron (Crucial) and Qimonda (Kingston). So if whether you buy from Apple or from Crucial, you&#039;re getting the same chips. 

Concerning apple RAM being &quot;faster&quot;, that is just patently untrue. RAM that is rated at a certain speed (e.g. DDR2-667 333) runs at that speed, no matter who you buy it from. Furthermore, when you stick a DDR2-667 DIMM into your machine, the memory controller runs at that speed. If you stick a piece of Apple DDR2-800, but the memory controller or FSB only runs at 667MHz, then the DDR2-800 DIMM is being wasted - it will only run as fast as the memory controller wants it to. Any perceived speed benifit you&#039;re getting from using Apple RAM vs. retail is 100% in your head.  

Having said all that, there IS some crap RAM you can buy out there. But this will not be slow, it will likely just create software errors or boot errors or something. All the big RAM makers have &quot;value brands&quot;, which is sold under a different brand name, mostly to white-box markets in Asia and Russia. There are also some smaller fabless RAM makers who sell cheap junk RAM. But if you stick to names like Crucial, Kingston, OCZ, etc, you will be getting the exact same chips that Apple gets, but for a lot cheaper]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Mike on this one, Raymond. Basically nothing you say there is true. </p>
<p>For one, there is no such thing as &#8220;Apple RAM&#8221;. Apple buys RAM from the same 4 or 5 big companies (Samsung, Micron, Qimonda, Hynix, Elpedia, Nanya) that sell 80% of the RAM for the entire industry and just sticks it in their computers. Companies like Crucial and Kingston are just retail-fronts for the RAM makers like Micron (Crucial) and Qimonda (Kingston). So if whether you buy from Apple or from Crucial, you&#8217;re getting the same chips. </p>
<p>Concerning apple RAM being &#8220;faster&#8221;, that is just patently untrue. RAM that is rated at a certain speed (e.g. DDR2-667 333) runs at that speed, no matter who you buy it from. Furthermore, when you stick a DDR2-667 DIMM into your machine, the memory controller runs at that speed. If you stick a piece of Apple DDR2-800, but the memory controller or FSB only runs at 667MHz, then the DDR2-800 DIMM is being wasted &#8211; it will only run as fast as the memory controller wants it to. Any perceived speed benifit you&#8217;re getting from using Apple RAM vs. retail is 100% in your head.  </p>
<p>Having said all that, there IS some crap RAM you can buy out there. But this will not be slow, it will likely just create software errors or boot errors or something. All the big RAM makers have &#8220;value brands&#8221;, which is sold under a different brand name, mostly to white-box markets in Asia and Russia. There are also some smaller fabless RAM makers who sell cheap junk RAM. But if you stick to names like Crucial, Kingston, OCZ, etc, you will be getting the exact same chips that Apple gets, but for a lot cheaper</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike D.		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32482</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32482</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Raymond: Frankly, I don&#039;t believe any of that.  Your entire post makes no sense to me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raymond: Frankly, I don&#8217;t believe any of that.  Your entire post makes no sense to me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Raymond Smith		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32479</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Raymond Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-32479</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Apple Ram is by far superior when using a operating system like Leopard. To save a few dollars buying cheap, Ram on an expensive computer makes no sense. Apple needs good RAM to operate quickly and correctly. Go ahed and buy Crucial, Kingston, it is not nearly as fast. I built my mac from scratch and used only Apple RAM, I used a 3rd party internal drive because my friend built it. Due to the quality of hardware I used from my system, I never have issues, My start-up time averages 30 seconds. I have an external I boot Tiger off of when needed. I have all of my applications working perfectly. Apple Ram is by far the best, as is their operating system OSx. Your cheap RAM is why I am always answering your questions on the Mac forum. Use only Apple certified hardware when up-grading or doing repairs.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple Ram is by far superior when using a operating system like Leopard. To save a few dollars buying cheap, Ram on an expensive computer makes no sense. Apple needs good RAM to operate quickly and correctly. Go ahed and buy Crucial, Kingston, it is not nearly as fast. I built my mac from scratch and used only Apple RAM, I used a 3rd party internal drive because my friend built it. Due to the quality of hardware I used from my system, I never have issues, My start-up time averages 30 seconds. I have an external I boot Tiger off of when needed. I have all of my applications working perfectly. Apple Ram is by far the best, as is their operating system OSx. Your cheap RAM is why I am always answering your questions on the Mac forum. Use only Apple certified hardware when up-grading or doing repairs.</p>
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		<title>
		By: john lascurettes		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31601</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john lascurettes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31601</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It is quite frustrating in the case of the Mac Mini where *officially* the end customer isn&#039;t allowed to open the case for RAM upgrades without voiding warranty or Apple Care agreements.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is quite frustrating in the case of the Mac Mini where *officially* the end customer isn&#8217;t allowed to open the case for RAM upgrades without voiding warranty or Apple Care agreements.</p>
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		<title>
		By: RottenToTheCore		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31389</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RottenToTheCore]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31389</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Its disgusting the amount Apple charges for RAM. There is absolutely no reason for it and it&#039;s extremely disheartening that unaware people actually do. Its already known you can get the SAME EXACT Ram for much cheaper. Exchanging corrupt RAM from crucial is no different than an RMA through Apple, and there are other retailers that DO cross ship so you&#039;ll have a replacement in 1-2 days. I actually considered buying a Mac but besides the ridiculous markups they also have no support for high end graphic cards(Nvidia 8800 series). I can&#039;t figure out why but that was a deal breaker for me. Whats the use of having 8 cores but no GPU power to push a 30&quot; monitor at high resolutions?? I assume Apples are not intended for the gamer. Ah well. :-/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its disgusting the amount Apple charges for RAM. There is absolutely no reason for it and it&#8217;s extremely disheartening that unaware people actually do. Its already known you can get the SAME EXACT Ram for much cheaper. Exchanging corrupt RAM from crucial is no different than an RMA through Apple, and there are other retailers that DO cross ship so you&#8217;ll have a replacement in 1-2 days. I actually considered buying a Mac but besides the ridiculous markups they also have no support for high end graphic cards(Nvidia 8800 series). I can&#8217;t figure out why but that was a deal breaker for me. Whats the use of having 8 cores but no GPU power to push a 30&#8243; monitor at high resolutions?? I assume Apples are not intended for the gamer. Ah well. :-/</p>
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		<title>
		By: Craig		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31315</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Craig]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 04:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31315</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a recent switcher; I&#039;m loving my new 20&quot; imac.  All I can say about Apple&#039;s RAM prices are that they obviously do NOT want to be in the RAM business.  I believe that they are offering it only because some users demand it from Apple.  I just ordered some RAM from OWC for $130 for 4 GB - Apple Store wants $1,000 plus tax and shipping!  Heck, the tax and shipping from Apple is nearly more than the OWC entire purchase!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a recent switcher; I&#8217;m loving my new 20&#8243; imac.  All I can say about Apple&#8217;s RAM prices are that they obviously do NOT want to be in the RAM business.  I believe that they are offering it only because some users demand it from Apple.  I just ordered some RAM from OWC for $130 for 4 GB &#8211; Apple Store wants $1,000 plus tax and shipping!  Heck, the tax and shipping from Apple is nearly more than the OWC entire purchase!</p>
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		<title>
		By: dailyeatings &#187; The Honeymoon is Over (Maybe)		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31303</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dailyeatings &#187; The Honeymoon is Over (Maybe)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 06:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31303</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] little digression: One of the more&#8230; idiosyncratic parts of owning a Mac is the whole &#8216;Apple RAM tax&#8216;. That is, Apple charges a rather hefty premium for RAM upgrades, such that most experienced [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] little digression: One of the more&#8230; idiosyncratic parts of owning a Mac is the whole &#8216;Apple RAM tax&#8216;. That is, Apple charges a rather hefty premium for RAM upgrades, such that most experienced [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fady Mohareb		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31269</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fady Mohareb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 01:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31269</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A lot of customers..even though the personal (not bussiness) option get their computers paid by their work, universities, etc..As they won&#039;t be paying themselves, and it&#039;s easier to make one order from a bureaucratic point of view (receipts, signatures,etc.) so they don&#039;t mind ..as well as Apple of course!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of customers..even though the personal (not bussiness) option get their computers paid by their work, universities, etc..As they won&#8217;t be paying themselves, and it&#8217;s easier to make one order from a bureaucratic point of view (receipts, signatures,etc.) so they don&#8217;t mind ..as well as Apple of course!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lightnix		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31216</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lightnix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 01:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31216</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Firstly, this is terrible on Apple&#039;s front, but I guess anyone willing to pay that much for a RAM upgrade has a large wallet and a small mind.

Even if RAM took a couple of hours to install, it&#039;d still be far more worth it than paying those prices.

To be honest, the low range on prices is a valid comparison seeing as Crucial is quite a big company, and their RAM is quite widely distributed.

And FYI, CL 3 is worse than CL 2, as CL stands for &#039;CAS Latency&#039;, higher is slower on that number.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, this is terrible on Apple&#8217;s front, but I guess anyone willing to pay that much for a RAM upgrade has a large wallet and a small mind.</p>
<p>Even if RAM took a couple of hours to install, it&#8217;d still be far more worth it than paying those prices.</p>
<p>To be honest, the low range on prices is a valid comparison seeing as Crucial is quite a big company, and their RAM is quite widely distributed.</p>
<p>And FYI, CL 3 is worse than CL 2, as CL stands for &#8216;CAS Latency&#8217;, higher is slower on that number.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Marcos El Malo		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31209</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marcos El Malo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31209</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I just wanted to add my voice to those plugging OWC. Great prices and great support. I made the &quot;pilgrimage&quot; to MWSF in 2004 and met some of the staff, and they&#039;re also really great people. OWC Larry, the boss, invited a bunch of us loyal customers out to dinner with his staff as well. I&#039;d like to see Newegg do something like that!

I usually buy Apple refurbed on the Apple website and I&#039;ve not had a bit of trouble (YMMV). An additional bonus of buying these refurbs is that they often come with extra RAM or larger hard drives at no additional cost. Part of the fun of receiving a refurb is seeing what components, if any, will be upgraded for free. On my last purchase (the 1.5 Ghz 12&quot; Apple Powerbook) I got an extra 256 of RAM and the next step up in hard drive.

Of course, I&#039;ve already upgraded the HD (a bit of a pain on the 12&quot; PBs, since so much is stuffed into such a small space). I&#039;m expecting a 1 GB stick to arrive from OWC today (which will be much easier to install). I&#039;m trying to hold off on purchasing a new laptop until after MWSF 2008 in January.

Another bit of advice: extended Applecare is totally worth it, especially for the laptops. Maybe I&#039;ve been lucky, but when I sent my Tibook in for a combo drive repair, they also replaced damage to the case (which was user inflicted) and the keyboard (which had gotten a little melty from a cigarette ash). On top of this, the combo drive they used to replace the non functioning one was of higher spec, i.e. faster. I figure the Applecare not only paid for itself, but paid for the next two extended warranties I will buy.

More: Save your old RAM. If you need to send your Mac in for service, replace your third party RAM with the factory RAM.

Lastly: I&#039;ve had very uneven service from the Apple Store Geniuses. it&#039;s been about 50/50 between those that know their stuff, and those that don&#039;t know their ass from their elbow. And it&#039;s always the dumb ones that are arrogant and unwilling to learn from someone with a lot more experience. But I guess that&#039;s the case everywhere, not just at Apple Stores.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wanted to add my voice to those plugging OWC. Great prices and great support. I made the &#8220;pilgrimage&#8221; to MWSF in 2004 and met some of the staff, and they&#8217;re also really great people. OWC Larry, the boss, invited a bunch of us loyal customers out to dinner with his staff as well. I&#8217;d like to see Newegg do something like that!</p>
<p>I usually buy Apple refurbed on the Apple website and I&#8217;ve not had a bit of trouble (YMMV). An additional bonus of buying these refurbs is that they often come with extra RAM or larger hard drives at no additional cost. Part of the fun of receiving a refurb is seeing what components, if any, will be upgraded for free. On my last purchase (the 1.5 Ghz 12&#8243; Apple Powerbook) I got an extra 256 of RAM and the next step up in hard drive.</p>
<p>Of course, I&#8217;ve already upgraded the HD (a bit of a pain on the 12&#8243; PBs, since so much is stuffed into such a small space). I&#8217;m expecting a 1 GB stick to arrive from OWC today (which will be much easier to install). I&#8217;m trying to hold off on purchasing a new laptop until after MWSF 2008 in January.</p>
<p>Another bit of advice: extended Applecare is totally worth it, especially for the laptops. Maybe I&#8217;ve been lucky, but when I sent my Tibook in for a combo drive repair, they also replaced damage to the case (which was user inflicted) and the keyboard (which had gotten a little melty from a cigarette ash). On top of this, the combo drive they used to replace the non functioning one was of higher spec, i.e. faster. I figure the Applecare not only paid for itself, but paid for the next two extended warranties I will buy.</p>
<p>More: Save your old RAM. If you need to send your Mac in for service, replace your third party RAM with the factory RAM.</p>
<p>Lastly: I&#8217;ve had very uneven service from the Apple Store Geniuses. it&#8217;s been about 50/50 between those that know their stuff, and those that don&#8217;t know their ass from their elbow. And it&#8217;s always the dumb ones that are arrogant and unwilling to learn from someone with a lot more experience. But I guess that&#8217;s the case everywhere, not just at Apple Stores.</p>
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		<title>
		By: James		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31208</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2007/11/ram-arbitrage#comment-31208</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hey, you should write for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/nov/09/apple.ram?gusrc=rss&#038;feed=technology&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the Guardian&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, you should write for <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2007/nov/09/apple.ram?gusrc=rss&amp;feed=technology" rel="nofollow">the Guardian</a>.</p>
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