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	<title>
	Comments on: Apple Flunks First Grade Math	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator</link>
	<description>A running commentary of occasionally interesting things — from Mike Davidson.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2016 20:43:16 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Mark Hammitt		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-398864</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Hammitt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2016 20:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-398864</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mark from the year 2016 checking in.  The floating point problem persists.  Someone remember to test this in 2028 (I mean, 2027.99999999999999) to see if Apple has gotten around to fixing it yet.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark from the year 2016 checking in.  The floating point problem persists.  Someone remember to test this in 2028 (I mean, 2027.99999999999999) to see if Apple has gotten around to fixing it yet.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Imf		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-69198</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Imf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-69198</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So stupid. There has to be a way to do this with software. Maybe something that handles both sides of the decimal separately? Then it wouldn&#039;t need to calculate the decimal points as fractions. Regardless of the reason, it&#039;s absolutely, 100.00000000000002% inexcusable.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So stupid. There has to be a way to do this with software. Maybe something that handles both sides of the decimal separately? Then it wouldn&#8217;t need to calculate the decimal points as fractions. Regardless of the reason, it&#8217;s absolutely, 100.00000000000002% inexcusable.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bob D		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-41840</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob D]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-41840</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Can anyone tell me how to do the following?

Using Calculator, with input a real number between 0 and 1 for example, how do I get the angle for which the sin equals that real number?

That is, how do I enter arcsin  (or any other arc-trig) to determine the angle? Thanks.

Bob]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can anyone tell me how to do the following?</p>
<p>Using Calculator, with input a real number between 0 and 1 for example, how do I get the angle for which the sin equals that real number?</p>
<p>That is, how do I enter arcsin  (or any other arc-trig) to determine the angle? Thanks.</p>
<p>Bob</p>
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		<title>
		By: David K		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-34313</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-34313</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here is the problem I am having with the Apple Calculator. I can&#039;t get it to display numbers in the format I would like. 

Here is what its is doing if calculate 13.5 / 1539 it shows me 8.7719e-03

While that is technically a correct answer I think I want tit to display it in the format I have become accustomed to like .0087719

What do I need to do to get it from this format 8.7719e-03 to this format .0087719

Right now I have OSX 10.4.11, Calculator version 4.0.6  but I have the same problem with Leopard too

David]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is the problem I am having with the Apple Calculator. I can&#8217;t get it to display numbers in the format I would like. </p>
<p>Here is what its is doing if calculate 13.5 / 1539 it shows me 8.7719e-03</p>
<p>While that is technically a correct answer I think I want tit to display it in the format I have become accustomed to like .0087719</p>
<p>What do I need to do to get it from this format 8.7719e-03 to this format .0087719</p>
<p>Right now I have OSX 10.4.11, Calculator version 4.0.6  but I have the same problem with Leopard too</p>
<p>David</p>
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		<title>
		By: sesli		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-33530</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sesli]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-33530</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jeff, you forget one crucial thing: we programmers are lazy. The standard math operations in any language are based on the basic integer and floating point operations as they are]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, you forget one crucial thing: we programmers are lazy. The standard math operations in any language are based on the basic integer and floating point operations as they are</p>
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		<title>
		By: steve		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-33084</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 03:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-33084</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[On the Mac bug site they wrote:

Additional information

For an advanced discussion of why this happens, see &quot;What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic&quot;

Interesting though that the computer scientists at Apple do not know this, and that they even point out what they should know, but don&#039;t, on their help site.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the Mac bug site they wrote:</p>
<p>Additional information</p>
<p>For an advanced discussion of why this happens, see &#8220;What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic&#8221;</p>
<p>Interesting though that the computer scientists at Apple do not know this, and that they even point out what they should know, but don&#8217;t, on their help site.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Heike Childs		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-31520</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heike Childs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 00:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-31520</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Today&#039;s calculator version 4.0.6. solved the addition problem of &quot;1938 + 65&quot; to equate 2000. After selection show paper tape and then pushing recalculate it came up with the correct answer 2003. What an embarrassment for Apple&#039;s math team. I&#039;m running the Operating system 10.4.11]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today&#8217;s calculator version 4.0.6. solved the addition problem of &#8220;1938 + 65&#8221; to equate 2000. After selection show paper tape and then pushing recalculate it came up with the correct answer 2003. What an embarrassment for Apple&#8217;s math team. I&#8217;m running the Operating system 10.4.11</p>
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		<title>
		By: bwold		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-31360</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bwold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 05:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-31360</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[try

  sin 360

(degree mode)

the answer should be zero but the calc shows -2.449293598294706e-16

os x 10.3.9]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>try</p>
<p>  sin 360</p>
<p>(degree mode)</p>
<p>the answer should be zero but the calc shows -2.449293598294706e-16</p>
<p>os x 10.3.9</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike D.		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-483</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-483</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Janne,

Sounds plausible, but that is setting the bar extremely low, don&#039;t you think?  I mean, the bar is pretty much just laying on the ground at that point.

I would think any calculator would use a number-storing format which could produce 100% accurate results on simple two-decimal arithmetic. When I think of rounding errors, I think more of legitimate repeating decimals like the square root of 2 or something.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janne,</p>
<p>Sounds plausible, but that is setting the bar extremely low, don&#8217;t you think?  I mean, the bar is pretty much just laying on the ground at that point.</p>
<p>I would think any calculator would use a number-storing format which could produce 100% accurate results on simple two-decimal arithmetic. When I think of rounding errors, I think more of legitimate repeating decimals like the square root of 2 or something.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AkaXakA Watson		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-486</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AkaXakA Watson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-486</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thing is, if even this math is wrong, how can we trust the rest?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thing is, if even this math is wrong, how can we trust the rest?</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Schontzler		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-487</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Schontzler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-487</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sounds like someone needs a new principal software engineer. I find it hard that he doesn&#039;t know much about floating point arithmetic operations.

And &quot;precision&quot; isn&#039;t a misnomer at all.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like someone needs a new principal software engineer. I find it hard that he doesn&#8217;t know much about floating point arithmetic operations.</p>
<p>And &#8220;precision&#8221; isn&#8217;t a misnomer at all.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike D.		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-489</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-489</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Shaun,

Funny you should mention Netscape, because I actually thought of their frame sizing algorithm when I was thinking about this bug.  I know it&#039;s probably unrelated but it just reminded me of it.  Basically, if you are using a frameset and you specify your frame dimensions in pixels, Netscape (at least up through version 4) would convert your pixels to a window size percentage, and then convert it back to pixels resulting in rounding errors all the time.

Kim and David,

Thanks for the Sun link. It looks like it explains floating points pretty thoroughly, but sheesh, 105 pages of engineer-speak. All I know is that even if this problem is legitimate, these errors should never make it to the consumer.  As for our principal software engineer, I&#039;m pretty sure his astonishment had more to do with not knowing how a calculator which had been around since 1984 could suddenly have this bug, as opposed to not knowing what floating point operations are. I mean, what could have possibly changed in Panther that would have introduced such a bug in the &lt;em&gt;calculator&lt;/em&gt;? That is more the question...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shaun,</p>
<p>Funny you should mention Netscape, because I actually thought of their frame sizing algorithm when I was thinking about this bug.  I know it&#8217;s probably unrelated but it just reminded me of it.  Basically, if you are using a frameset and you specify your frame dimensions in pixels, Netscape (at least up through version 4) would convert your pixels to a window size percentage, and then convert it back to pixels resulting in rounding errors all the time.</p>
<p>Kim and David,</p>
<p>Thanks for the Sun link. It looks like it explains floating points pretty thoroughly, but sheesh, 105 pages of engineer-speak. All I know is that even if this problem is legitimate, these errors should never make it to the consumer.  As for our principal software engineer, I&#8217;m pretty sure his astonishment had more to do with not knowing how a calculator which had been around since 1984 could suddenly have this bug, as opposed to not knowing what floating point operations are. I mean, what could have possibly changed in Panther that would have introduced such a bug in the <em>calculator</em>? That is more the question&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Doc Griffin		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-492</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doc Griffin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-492</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was distracted while writing my previous post and just now realized I forgot to include the information of greatest value to you: How to eliminate the problem.

Set the precision to 2.

I&#039;m surprised this isn&#039;t the default, as far more users can be expected to need to reconcile their check registers as opposed to needing numbers for structural load calculations or titration values.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was distracted while writing my previous post and just now realized I forgot to include the information of greatest value to you: How to eliminate the problem.</p>
<p>Set the precision to 2.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m surprised this isn&#8217;t the default, as far more users can be expected to need to reconcile their check registers as opposed to needing numbers for structural load calculations or titration values.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Janne Kalliola		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-493</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Janne Kalliola]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-493</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jeff, you forget one crucial thing: we programmers are lazy. The standard math operations in any language are based on the basic integer and floating point operations as they are fast. And if you can select between

  c = a + b

or

  c.setValue(a.add(b));

you&#039;d probably select the first one.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, you forget one crucial thing: we programmers are lazy. The standard math operations in any language are based on the basic integer and floating point operations as they are fast. And if you can select between</p>
<p>  c = a + b</p>
<p>or</p>
<p>  c.setValue(a.add(b));</p>
<p>you&#8217;d probably select the first one.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Seth Thomas Rasmussen		</title>
		<link>https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/apple-calculator#comment-494</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Seth Thomas Rasmussen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-494</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Awwww.... you had a great piece going, and you had to soil it by throwing in a tired &quot;Macs are better than PCs&quot; roundabout comment! Come on, man! ;-p (That bug is quite nutty though.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awwww&#8230;. you had a great piece going, and you had to soil it by throwing in a tired &#8220;Macs are better than PCs&#8221; roundabout comment! Come on, man! ;-p (That bug is quite nutty though.)</p>
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